There are hardcore metal bands and there are stoner metal bands; but there is only one Type O Negative. Hailing from Brooklyn, New York, Type O Negative are hands down one of the most original, charismatic, modern metal bands in America! They rocked the boat of commercial radio a few years back with their breakthrough album, Bloody Kisses (whose cover art depicts two women kissing) and a delightfully controversial single (and video banned from MTV!), "Christian Woman," with it's catchy sing-along refrain "Loving you was like loving the dead." Who hasn't dated someone like that? It's no wonder this song was a huge hit.

Type O Negative are also known for their very ultra-hunky lead singer/bass player, Peter Steele; the first man to ever pose for a PlayGirl centerfold in a state of, shall we say, "arousal." I was fortunate enough to be physically pressed against Peter Steele's 6'7" brick-shit-house of a body once about five years ago and I will never, ever forget it. What a man! Not to put too fine a point on it, but when Type O Negative release a record and they have press days, everyone wants to talk to Peter Steele. But me, I just love the band and I'll talk to any of them. Choosing among them would be like trying to pick a favorite Beatle. Sure everyone would probably say John or Paul, but wouldn't you be just as excited to meet Ringo? Don't lie and say no. I'd already interviewed keyboardist Josh Silver, back in 1996 for the release of October Rust, so when Roadrunner Records asked me if I'd like to interview either Type O drummer Johnny Kelly or guitarist Kenny Hickey about their upcoming new CD, World Coming Down, I told their publicist I was willing to be flexible and that she could flip the coin for me. The word came back that I would be granted an audience with drummer, Johnny Kelly, who is just about the best looking guy on the planet. It was a win-win situation. I love my life.

Johnny Kelly, 31, joined Type O in 1993, replacing original drummer, Sal Abruscato. "I had joined the band two months after Bloody Kisses was released." says Johnny. "I did everything, all the promotion and touring, for that record, I was even in the "Christian Woman" video -- sporting my Eric Estrada look," he laughs. "I started playing drums when I was around 15," he says. "There was a fellow who lived up the block from me, I guess he was 16 or 17 years old at the time, and he said "You wanna learn how to play drums?" and I said "Yeah!" He taught me basics like four/four beats and a little bit of coordination. Then I started picking apart songs and trying to learn." Except for a few lessons from this neighbor and, years later, some additional pointers from the drummer of Twisted Sister, AJ Pero, Johnny is basically self taught. He describes his approach to drumming as "honest." What more needs to be said?

Nearly three years in the making, World Coming Down was produced by Josh and Peter and is rumored to be Type O's darkest, heaviest, most introspective album to date. Please join me now as Johnny Kelly gives a lesson on the power of negative thinking.

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Quite often, Type O gets lumped in with the whole Goth scene, I guess because of the heavy subject matter and the death imagery or whatever. Do you guys consider yourselves to be part of that scene or do you more closely identify with the metal music scene?

I think that we are a part of Goth, to an extent. There are things that are a direct correlation to goth music, but as a whole, no, I wouldn't say that. I would say we're probably more of a metal band, but it's even hard to say that. People have to categorize things. I don't think Type O Negative is the kind of band that justly deserves to be categorized, because we have in the past, and [will] in the future, go to different aspects, different territories musically and it all still sounds like Type O Negative. It doesn't sound like Type O Negative trying to be the Cure or Black Sabbath. What ever sound [we have], people are going to categorize it. Whatever they have to do to make it relate to them somehow -- that's fine.

Howard Stern made this comment on his show the other day that Type O Negative make "Manly Music." How do you respond to that?

I was listening to that show and, prior to [him saying] that, I had just turned him off, because he was talking about, you know, "Play my demo and my girlfriend will lift up her shirt" and I was like "click." Then I get home that morning, I had taken my wife to school, and my phone all of a sudden started ringing like crazy, off the hook, "Are you listening to Howard Stern?" I guess the music does portray a certain imagery of masculinity, you know, the way the band looks: four big guys with long black hair and mean faces. [Based on] some of the lyrics, I don't think it is very manly. Not to be taken out of context: I think [our lyrical subject matter] touches on subjects that most men are afraid to exhibit.

You mean the vulnerable side of being a man?

Yeah, the vulnerable side, the sense of loss. You know, to say that you do miss [someone], that you are upset because your girlfriend broke up with you or it does hurt you that your girlfriend screwed your best friend. Instead of taking it out and being a primate and beating everybody and everything up, [our songs talk about] just being able to sit down and fucking cry about it, which when you break it down, is the whole thing about rejection.

Type O Negative released a tour video a year or so ago, After Dark, that showed the very warped sense of humor of the band. Are you all prone to playing pranks on each other?

Yes, I think if somebody really wants to know Type O Negative, what I could recommend as references are many episodes of The Honeymooners, The Odd Couple and Mel Brooks films. A lot of our inside jokes are all from that [type of material]. Through Type O Negative and through the music we're able to display sides of us that we normally don't show.

Parts of that video seem like the big jokes came through in post- production, like the way they put that "Dueling Banjos" kind of musical motif over all of your interviews. I almost expected to see you chewing on a piece of straw.

We're all making fun of each other in those skits. You have to be able to laugh at yourself, especially in this kind of environment. You're such a fool to take yourself seriously in rock and roll. I'm glad that you got [the jokes] because a lot of people don't get things like that.

Oh I thought it was hilarious. Like the way you tied Felix (Sebacious, Type O Negative merchandise manager) up in that chair and left him alone in that room.

Yeah, we had fun doing that! We left him like that after we were done filming. It was beautiful! We've done that to radio guys, like Midwestern reps and stuff like that. I mean, we are, to an extent, light-hearted people. We are very sarcastic. It's just the nature of where we come from: Brooklyn is a very sarcastic place.

I'm curious as to whether you ever play an electronic kit or are you an acoustic purist?

I've done a lot of drum programming, working with samplers and stuff like that, but not in a live situation, no, I couldn't.

Do you ever have to play to a click because of using tapes or whatever in a live situation?

The band could never play live to a click. It would be a total train wreck (laughs). I'm still more on the end where I would be very intimidated by it. We have it worked out, with Josh manually doing the samples, [so that] every night can be something completely different, and virtually every night it is, as opposed to using a metronome or something like that. So if the band is feeling like shit -- or at least if I am -- everything's going to be dragging. Or if everybody's wound-up we'll be playing the songs at 95 miles an hour.

It's good to have the ability to be spontaneous like that.

Yeah, we've toured with a lot of bands that have worked with click tracks and you do kind of get that [feeling] where it's the same thing every night instead of it being spontaneous -- and what can happen? Where can it go? Type O Negative is not a drum-exhibitionist kind of band. You play more for a song, and I think that's everybody's role in the band. You don't approach a song to say well, I have these eight measures here to do whatever the fuck I want. You can't. It's not that kind of music where your ego's going to get massaged, like guys coming up to you going "Wow, you're a great drummer." I appreciate the compliments of "It's very solid"

or things like that, or that the band's tight, you know? That's moreimportant to me than how many notes I can fill or how big of a drum fill I can put in.

Listening to October Rust, it sounds like the drums are mixed low in most

songs and that the keyboards swell up over everything.

On October Rust we were trying to go for that dynamic feel of a very mellow part and then you can feel the build up of intensity in the music. That record has been taking a beating lately. I went back and listened to it the other day and I was [thinking] What are these people hearing?' When October Rust first came out, everybody was praising it as the biggest thing since the wheel. [And now it seems like people are saying] "Well you were doing this and the problem here and what about this and that and you've changed your style." I exploded on one guy last week about this.

Let's talk about the new record, World Coming Down. When I talked to Josh about October Rust, and I asked him what kind of sound you were going for he said "We were going for sexuality and a similar kind of darkness but at the same time added psychedelic elements." What was the objective for WCD?

Well, [regarding] the theme for October Rust, we were inspired by 60's psychedelic music -- things like the Doors -- and there was that element of sensuality that we were going for. On this record, there's more of an abrasive heaviness to it. It's more riff-oriented, not as many textures, not as produced as October Rust. On October Rust, I think we went as far as we could with the whole sensuality-textured-persona, so to speak. For us to make a record like that now really wouldn't really represent us very well, as to the state that we're in and the kind of people that we are. This, lyrically, is a little more introspective, not as fantasy-oriented.

There don't seem to be any obvious singles. Did you intentionally try not to write hits?

Not that we intended not to, it just seems like that's the way it came out. We didn't have a certain perspective that we were saying to ourselves, "Okay, this is the direction that we're going to go into." The four of us just got into a room and this is what happened (laughs softly). Most of the songs that were written, most of the material transpired just by us jamming in a room together, as opposed to the last record [where] Peter had all the material basically written and then presented it to us. Then we got to put our teeth into it that way.

Is World Coming Down considered to be a loose concept album?

A concept as in [the songs] seem to have a certain correlation, yes. What the concept is...it just seems like the whole World, everything, is just falling apart right in front of us and we feel completely helpless in all of it.

Is that based on what's been happening in the personal lives of Type O Negative band members?

Yeah. I mean, a lot of good things have happened and a lot of bad things have happened. Peter's the youngest person in his family, and he's 37 years old. He's lost a lot of family members [in] the past few years.

Is that where song titles like "Everyone I Love is Dead" and "Everything Dies" come from?

Absolutely.

Was it difficult for him emotionally to work on those songs in the studio?

Yeah, he has problems going back and listening to them because, like I said, he's exposing himself. Whenever you expose something that personal -- especially in a song -- you're constantly reminded every time you hear it.

Do you suppose, in a way, it might have been a real catharsis for him? Like a way to exorcise that pain?

Yes, it is a form of therapy for him. Actually, he coined the phrase a very long time ago [saying] his music to him is "Sonic Therapy." That pretty much goes for all of us. We could all relate on one level or another to the things that he's writing about and that's pretty much why we all stay in the band.

One of the really cool things about Type O is that there is such a feel of bonding amongst the band members, like you really are a unit and not just four faceless guys. You're like the Beatles in that way. Everyone has their own distinct personality.

I appreciate your point of view. I wish most people [thought that way].

I was excited to talk to either you or Kenny.

Kenny's a better interview than I am (laughs). I'm more like Ringo. You wanna have a couple of laughs, you come talk to me. You wanna look for deep, profound statements, I am not the guy you want to talk to. Kenny has that analytical way of looking at things. I look at it as "That's a cigar? Okay fine. I believe you." You wanna sell me the Brooklyn bridge? I'll give you a down-payment.

Josh was one of the most difficult interviews I've ever done.

Josh is a difficult guy. He is a character builder, isn't he?

There's a cover of the Beatles "Day Tripper" listed as a "maybe" on the track listing...is that song going to make the final cut?

Fortunately yes. Hurray! It was a tough battle but I've got to say that Roadrunner pulled through on that one.

Is it a pretty faithful arrangement or did you guys fuck it up? In a good way I mean..

We totally bastardized it. We did what type O Negative has always done to cover songs. We were really shocked at the way it came out...pleasantly surprised. It was one of the first times that the band has collectively agreed on anything. We were all happy with the way it turned out and we all wanted it to be on the record. Then everybody told us no, [that] the Beatles, or Michael Jackson, whoever, wants a lot of money for it. We wound up using parts of four different songs, so it turned into a medley, and the owner of the publishing wanted to be paid accordingly. It's like a ten minute song. We just thought that, from an artistic point of view, it would be really cool for the record. We weren't thinking about if from a financial perspective. It cost us a lot of money to put the song on the record, but it's cool and we think it will be worth it in the long run.

I love the Beatles.

Yeah, so do we. [The Beatles are] one of the main roots of Type O Negative, right at the core. We all, individually, have different tastes in music, but that's one of the common denominators in the band. Them and Black Sabbath.

What song on World Coming Down is your favorite?

I'd have to go with the title track. I think it epitomizes everything Type O Negative, it's got all of it in there. [It's] probably one of the heaviest songs that we've ever done. Everything about it, I can't find anything I dislike about the song, as I can with every other song that we've done.

How would you say that your own playing is evolving?

Evolving or devolving (laughs)?

Either one.

From a players' stand point, it's always a challenge, every time, to play. I've never really been satisfied with my playing. I always want to better myself, somehow, and I don't know if I've achieved that. Type O Negative is not a band where you go "Wow, the drummer's great in that band!" It's just not that kind of music. It's more like everybody contributes to a song. Once in a while, there's a guitar lead or a keyboard lead here or there, but it's not exactly like listening to Led Zeppelin, where everybody's going off on a tangent. I like to concentrate on things like meter and my timing, to be ahead of the beat or be on top of it. You find different things to challenge yourself. To try to be consistent is probably one of the most

important things to me now, not so much whether I can play certain paradiddles (rudimentary drum exercises used to build coordination) or try to fit as many drum fills as I can into the song. That doesn't have any appeal to me. Drum solos bored me when I was a teenager: it had no appeal to me unless it was John Bonham, but he was dead way before I was going to concerts.

What drummers do you admire?

John Bonham, Tommy Lee was a big influence when I was a teenager, Bill Ward, of course. Actually, I can find something good in anyone (laughs) you know, even Charlie Watts. I when I was younger I just used to listen to a lot of metal because I always thought that the drums were really dominant in that kind of music. Anybody that's just honest and just goes for it in their playing, that's what I appreciate more that an actual studied musician. Most of those guys get kind of lost. I mean, it's always been frustrating for me. All the bands that we've toured with -- I've had to open up for some really big-time drummers. Guys like Scott Rockenfield (Queensryche) and Tommy Lee and Vinnie Paul (Pantera), these guys are well known and highly admired for their playing abilities and I've had to open up for all these guys (laughs). It makes it hard every night, like (moans) Oh man, I've gotta open up for this guy? I just hope he's not in the venue.'

I understand that the drums on Type O records are all programmed.

Yeah, to record the album, we used the Performer program, it's similar to ProTools, I believe. I'm not too familiar with what's available because this is the only thing that I've ever worked with. We have a Mac and a sampler, a Kurzweil K2500, that's one of the most incredible samplers I've ever seen in my life.

Why do you choose to do it that way, since you don't use any electronic devices in your live playing?

The demos we do are comparable to the album that we make in terms of the complexity and the layers of sounds on them. By using this method, we're able to infinitely work on the songs. If you don't like the way something feels,' it's so easy to just go in and change it, as opposed to if I did tracks the standard way: going in, laying down tracks. [When you record in that manner] that's it. You're stuck with that. For World Coming Down, we were able to change complete patterns in songs and we were able to do that right up to the last minute. With technology, you can't be afraid of it; you have to embrace it. We approach making the records one way and then we have the live presentation that we put another way.

I understand you have an interest in car racing.

I'm more into muscle cars and bracket racing. I have a 70 SuperBee 440. It's an old Dodge muscle car. You remember old Roadrunners? It's a car like that. I'm a mechanic by trade and it's what I've been doing in my off- time. Since I've been home I've been building this car. I just put an engine in it two months ago. I bought it and it needed a lot of work and over the course of a couple of years it actually turned out to be pretty nice and I've been able to take it to the track a few times and run it. I hope I get a few more passes in before we start touring again and I don't get to see it anymore. I miss my car.

I remember seeing you on Halloween here in the city a couple of years ago.

Type O Negative and Halloween, they walk hand in hand. It's our holiday and we've always tried to do something interesting for Halloween. There's a certain element, you know, [how] all the freaks come out on Halloween and it adds to it. For the last few years now we've been able to do something around that day in New York.

Type O has a song on the soundtrack for the Blair Witch Project, how did that come about?

When they were doing it, they had asked us for a song and we didn't think anything of it at the time. The record company has the rights to solicit the material any way they want, so they told us we were going to be on the soundtrack and we were like Cool! Whatever!" After we saw the movie we were all glad to see that we are a part of something that's cool. It seems like Type O Negative music fits in pretty good with the movie itself. It's a really good movie, I would definitely recommend it.

*****

World Coming Down will be released on Roadrunner records September

21, 1999.

*****

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